Podcast brief
Ryan Holiday Runs Rome's Stoic Sites
Ryan Holiday narrates a solo 50-kilometer run past Rome's Stoic landmarks to draw out lessons about voluntary hardship and endurance.
A Stoa brief of an episode from The Daily Stoic
Running 50 Kilometers Through Rome To Understand Stoicism
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The episode belongs to its makers. This page summarizes its arguments in Stoa's words and points to the moments where they are made. Brief updated .
The brief
Ryan Holiday narrates a solo 50-kilometer run through Rome, stopping at sites tied to the Stoics to draw lessons from the ordeal itself. He frames the run as a mushogi, a yearly hard challenge borrowed from Jesse Itzler, and argues that the value of doing something hard lies in the doing, not in trophies or in beating anyone else.
The reasoning runs through the sites in order. At Hadrian's Tomb, Holiday connects the fortress to the Stoic image of the inner citadel, the internal toughness built by voluntarily choosing to do hard things. At the Trevi Fountain he recalls Seneca's yearly practice of jumping into the cold aqueduct water, arguing that Seneca did this not for health but to train the body to obey the mind. Getting lost on the route becomes an occasion to restate Seneca's point that the unexpected blow lands heaviest, so a Stoic prepares by expecting things to go wrong. At the Colosseum and Circus Maximus, he discusses the Stoics' distaste for the games' violence and uses the charioteer, alternately reining in and urging on the horses, as an image of sophrosyne, the temperance of pushing neither too hard nor too little.
Holiday also draws a line through the run itself as a demonstration of what is and is not up to us. Once training and fueling are handled, he argues, the physical side of an ultra is a solved equation. What remains uncertain, and squarely within your control, is willpower: the decision to keep going or to quit.
The conversation does not stage a disagreement between host and guest. Its interest is in how Holiday uses landmarks, Hadrian's Tomb, the Trevi Fountain, the column of Marcus Aurelius, the Colosseum, the Appian Way, as physical prompts for Stoic ideas he has already been carrying. The open question the piece leaves is whether public monuments and private discipline sit together as easily as the run suggests, or whether recognition and inner benefit pull in different directions, a tension Holiday does not resolve so much as run past.
The usable takeaway: pick one challenge this year that is a real stretch past your normal capacity, not for the finish line, but for what having to keep going will build in you.
Strongest arguments
Doing hard things is valuable in itself
0:32Holiday explains the idea of a mushogi, an annual difficult challenge that matters regardless of whether you succeed. The point is that you are improved by the struggle itself, not by the outcome, so the challenge must be a real stretch beyond your normal capacity.
What is in your control during a hard task
3:19Holiday argues that in an ultra run, physical capacity is a solved equation once you have trained and fueled properly. What remains uncertain and within your control is your willpower and fortitude, the decision to keep going or to quit, while external obstacles must simply be handled as they come.
The inner citadel is built by voluntary hardship
4:02Standing at Hadrian's Tomb, Holiday connects the literal fortress to the Stoic image of an inner citadel, an internal toughness you retreat to under pressure. He argues that physically training and pushing yourself is how you build that inner reserve of strength.
Trophies are not the point of doing hard things
5:09Using Marcus Aurelius's victory column, which he never lived to see finished and which was later rededicated to someone else, Holiday argues that external recognition is beside the point. The real benefit of doing something hard is internal and is already secured the moment you have done it.
Seneca's cold water practice trains the body to obey the mind
6:20Holiday describes Seneca's yearly ritual of jumping into the cold Virgo Aqueduct, arguing that Seneca did this not for physical health benefits but to keep the body disciplined and responsive to reason, so it would not resist the mind's commands.
Expect things to go wrong so the unexpected does not land hardest
12:38After getting lost during the run, Holiday argues that Stoic preparation means expecting difficulty and setbacks in advance. If you assume everything must go right you are vulnerable, but if you are ready for things to go sideways, an unexpected blow will not hit as hard, echoing Seneca's point about the unexpected.
Sophrosyne as the discipline of pacing shown by the charioteer
15:00At Circus Maximus, Holiday uses the image of a chariot racer, sometimes reining the horses in and sometimes urging them faster, as the Stoic emblem of sophrosyne or temperance. He argues that any challenge, including training for a race, requires this same balance of pushing hard without overtraining or injuring yourself.
Concepts discussed
- Dichotomy of control Some things are up to us, namely our own judgments and actions, and everything else is not, and only the first kind is truly free and our own.
Philosophers and works discussed
- Marcus Aurelius
- Seneca
- Meditations
Questions this episode answers
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What is a mushogi and how does it relate to Stoic ideas about hard challenges?
0:32A mushogi is an annual difficult challenge, borrowed from Jesse Itzler, chosen specifically because it is hard and beyond your normal capacity. The Stoic point is that the value lies in wrestling with the challenge itself, not in whether you succeed.
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Why did Seneca throw himself into cold water every year?
6:20Seneca jumped into the Virgo Aqueduct's cold water yearly not for physical health benefits like inflammation reduction, but to train his body to be obedient to his mind, treating the body rigorously so it does not resist reason.
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What is the Stoic idea of the inner citadel?
4:02The inner citadel is an internal fortress of toughness that you retreat to and draw on under pressure, comparable to a literal fortress protecting a city. It is built by voluntarily doing hard things and training, which reinforces an inner reservoir of strength.
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What does the charioteer symbolize in Stoic philosophy?
15:00The charioteer at Circus Maximus, alternately reining horses in and urging them faster while navigating tight turns, was emblematic for the Stoics of sophrosyne, the virtue of temperance or moderation, applicable to training and any difficult pursuit.
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Why did the Stoics dislike the Colosseum and its games?
13:22The Stoics, including Seneca, found the violence, mob mentality, and brutality of the games degrading and disgusting. Marcus Aurelius attended out of obligation but reportedly read philosophy or wrote in his journal rather than watch, and used the image of battered gladiators as a metaphor for people refusing to change course despite being beaten down by life.
Related primary passages
Some things are in our control and others not. Things in our control are opinion, pursuit, desire, aversion, and, in a word, whatever are our own actions. Things not in our control are body, property, reputation, command, and, in one word, whatever are not our own actions.The things in our control are by nature free, unrestrained, unhindered; but those not in our control are weak, slavish, restrained, belonging to others.
Epictetus, Handbook 1 Read in context
The opening line of the Handbook and the definition Epictetus gives the whole tradition.
as if you wast now dying, despise the flesh; it is blood and bones and a network, a contexture of nerves, veins, and arteries.
Marcus Aurelius, Meditations 2.2 Read in context
Marcus uses imagined death to strip away vanity and see the body and mind plainly.
Related pages
Sources
- Epictetus, Handbook Primary text, Stoa library
- Marcus Aurelius, Meditations Primary text, Stoa library
- The Daily Stoic, Running 50 Kilometers Through Rome To Understand Stoicism Podcast episode, original episode